Celica gtfour wrc.....collector worthy?, Celica gtfour wrc.....collector worthy? Options

[LimitedGT4]

Hi all,

Got a question, which i know the answer can be oppinionated, but taking the mk4 supra as an example, i never thought it would be sought out as a "collectible" with prices reaching 100k for low mile stock turbo no targa 6psd models. Is there any reason why one shouldnt expect the st205 wrc to be sought out more in a few years with stock models having a higher premium than modified models.

I ask to know if i should consider leaving my potential wrc as stock as possible. Or is this just one of those cool cars that will never be considered collectible and moding the car wont "ruin" the price.


I searched for collect but didnt see anything related

[LimitedGT4]

i feel like ive been shunned no one has any insight to offer?

[slavie]

No way to tell without a crystal ball. Got one?
Supra had a big boost from the Fast&Furious franchise. Also, it was a halo sports car for Toyota, a pinnacle of tuning potential not seen before or since (the jury is still out on the Zupra). Sure, there was the 2000GT and the LFA, but those are low volume cars in a different class altogether.
As for the ST205, it does not have the pop-culture element and its rally history is marred with a scandal. In some ways the scandal might help, but probably not as much as rally success without one would have. Look at things like Corvair for example - the scandal is maybe the primary source of interest in the car, but it's only enough to sustain mild appreciation compared to other cars of the era.
There's also no continuation for the Celica. The ST205 was the end of the line for rallying - 7G Celica hardly had any motorsports participation, and Toyota switched to Corolla and now the Yaris for rallying. While the Zupra is back, and there's a slimmer of hope the MR2 will see the light of day again, chances of a new Celica are slim to none.
Will the ST205 have some value? I'm sure it will, but I don't see it appreciating anywhere close to the pace of the MkIV Supra.

This post has been edited by slavie: Jan 24, 2021 - 4:26 PM

[LimitedGT4]

Thanks for replying and i was not trying to imply the st205 would skyrocket in price, more like would it be sought out more in stock form over modified, for purposes of collecting. What u say is what i have read but wanted the opinion of the community. Thanks

Guess i wont worry much about it

[slavie]

A bone stock example of almost any car will be worth more than a modified one. There are very few cars that are worth more than stock in modified form, and the only ones that I know off involve modifications made by reputable shops (Singer modified Porsche 911, for example). Whatever you do at home will more likely decrease the value, hence why some people obsess about modifications being 100% reversible.
With that said, the numbers here for ST205 are unlikely to be large, so it may just be more valuable to you to have fun with the car and enjoy it rather than worry about resale value and mileage. True, most desirable collectible cars have basically no miles and all original paperwork, but all their original owners ever did with those cars is look at them. Is that what you want?

[LimitedGT4]

im not one to just look at the car. And yea i was mostly planning on reversible mods... my real concern was missing out on a good oportunity to preserve value. I saw some wrc models online right now going between 25k-30k.. dont know if they will sell for that but i would hate to devalue it to say 15k due to mods, even if they were tasteful mods, just because of the thought that the higher premium is voided... guess i wont worry too much and just be smart about it

[bloodMoney]

I'm keeping my mods reversible, but mine didn't come with a stock suspension or exhaust, so I couldn't turn it back to 100% OEM without great effort, which I'm not willing to put in.

I"m not going to go and chop up the body for a rocketbunny kit, but I'm not going to stress about the rolled fenders and little things.

It's going to get beat up on track anyway.

[LimitedGT4]

I'm keeping my mods reversible, but mine didn't come with a stock suspension or exhaust, so I couldn't turn it back to 100% OEM without great effort, which I'm not willing to put in.

I"m not going to go and chop up the body for a rocketbunny kit, but I'm not going to stress about the rolled fenders and little things.

It's going to get beat up on track anyway.

I agree with the rocket bunny, but man its tempting

[bloodMoney]

If I really get the urge to chop one up, it will be a semi-rusty non-WRC from europe.

But I already have a rusty ST185 to chop up, so I most likely will be getting my energy out there.

[njccmd2002]

GT4 price is only up here in the States because as Americans weve always wanted one, and importers saw opportunity to make some bucks, initially. Then sellers, saw what these could bring, and prices were even higher.

what changed, from 6 years ago that i was offered a car at 8k, and then that very same care was 15k a year ago.

NOTHING, NOTHING. was not featured in any movie, was not part of any good legacy, It simply became available to be registered in the good old US of A.

When Americans want something, people see an opportunity to make bucks, would prices come down soon?, maybe. Id hate to pay pretty penny for a car that then would be worth its real price 2 years later. I wanted a GT4, but i did the responsible thing, got a cheap supra. not the F&F, lol, that would not be responsible.

[LimitedGT4]

GT4 price is only up here in the States because as Americans weve always wanted one, and importers saw opportunity to make some bucks, initially. Then sellers, saw what these could bring, and prices were even higher.

what changed, from 6 years ago that i was offered a car at 8k, and then that very same care was 15k a year ago.

NOTHING, NOTHING. was not featured in any movie, was not part of any good legacy, It simply became available to be registered in the good old US of A.

When Americans want something, people see an opportunity to make bucks, would prices come down soon?, maybe. Id hate to pay pretty penny for a car that then would be worth its real price 2 years later. I wanted a GT4, but i did the responsible thing, got a cheap supra. not the F&F, lol, that would not be responsible.

I couldnt find a cheap supra as those prices really went crazy so im getring a cheap gt4, which just looks like it might be a wrc....

As far as legacy and heritage people forget it was the official rally car at one point and it did win races despite its downfall so all that is debateable. But also not every car featured in a movie gains notoriety so the more i think of it im not sure the success of the supra or its price should be attributed to a movie. Eclipse, evo, wrx, rx7, jetta, s2k, civic and the list goes on. None really compare in value nor are they now considered collectibles when they are in certain condition.

The question wasnt would prices get ridiculous but rather would and unmodified wrc be considered more valuable than a modified one, as time goes on...


However i get everyones point that everything changes and one can never know and usually a stock car could be worth more compared to its modified counterpart
...

[slavie]

I couldnt find a cheap supra as those prices really went crazy so im getring a cheap gt4, which just looks like it might be a wrc....

As far as legacy and heritage people forget it was the official rally car at one point and it did win races despite its downfall so all that is debateable. But also not every car featured in a movie gains notoriety so the more i think of it im not sure the success of the supra or its price should be attributed to a movie. Eclipse, evo, wrx, rx7, jetta, s2k, civic and the list goes on. None really compare in value nor are they now considered collectibles when they are in certain condition.

The question wasnt would prices get ridiculous but rather would and unmodified wrc be considered more valuable than a modified one, as time goes on...


However i get everyones point that everything changes and one can never know and usually a stock car could be worth more compared to its modified counterpart
...

Welp, you were the one to bring comparison to a Supra in your first post. But, the GT4 was really in a class of Evo, WRX STI, and it's values would be more in line with the class. Supra was a competitor to the 3000GT, Nissan GT-R, that sort of thing. Different production numbers, too. If someone wants a Supra and can't find one, they're more likely to settle for a Nissan GT-R rather than a Celica GT4, and that reflects in the prices, ya know.

[njccmd2002]

by cheap supra i meant at RHD JZA70 TTR, their prices have gone up lately, this would be the only MK3 I would get, others are not so great in value.

but anyone happy with a real gt4 and does not mind to pay 20K, and youre american, i say go for it.

[BonzaiCelica]

people seek the wrc because it was limited production number and easier to register?. even though theres no reason why you should get one over the original gt4.

i dont understand why toyota didnt fit the Recaro SR2 confetti (found on the Supra)... to set it apart from the non wrc variant.

[slavie]

people seek the wrc because it was limited production number and easier to register?. even though theres no reason why you should get one over the original gt4.

i dont understand why toyota didnt fit the Recaro SR2 confetti (found on the Supra)... to set it apart from the non wrc variant.

WRC cars have some of the WRC hardware that is disabled. Like, intercooler sprayers, piping for anti-lag injectors (I forget the rest). So it is a little different, though power output should be same. Someone had enabled the anti-lag injectors if I remember right, though it's not as easy as on some other FIA homologation special cars. If I were looking for a collector grade ST205, that extra hardware would sure command a premium.

[LimitedGT4]

I couldnt find a cheap supra as those prices really went crazy so im getring a cheap gt4, which just looks like it might be a wrc....

As far as legacy and heritage people forget it was the official rally car at one point and it did win races despite its downfall so all that is debateable. But also not every car featured in a movie gains notoriety so the more i think of it im not sure the success of the supra or its price should be attributed to a movie. Eclipse, evo, wrx, rx7, jetta, s2k, civic and the list goes on. None really compare in value nor are they now considered collectibles when they are in certain condition.

The question wasnt would prices get ridiculous but rather would and unmodified wrc be considered more valuable than a modified one, as time goes on...


However i get everyones point that everything changes and one can never know and usually a stock car could be worth more compared to its modified counterpart
...

Welp, you were the one to bring comparison to a Supra in your first post. But, the GT4 was really in a class of Evo, WRX STI, and it's values would be more in line with the class. Supra was a competitor to the 3000GT, Nissan GT-R, that sort of thing. Different production numbers, too. If someone wants a Supra and can't find one, they're more likely to settle for a Nissan GT-R rather than a Celica GT4, and that reflects in the prices, ya know.

The comparison was in terms of costing more over time as not many cars have this effect not in class. And production is lower on the wrc which is what made me curious about peoples opinion.

by cheap supra i meant at RHD JZA70 TTR, their prices have gone up lately, this would be the only MK3 I would get, others are not so great in value.

but anyone happy with a real gt4 and does not mind to pay 20K, and youre american, i say go for it.

I sold my mk3 1.5jz single big turbo supra

people seek the wrc because it was limited production number and easier to register?. even though theres no reason why you should get one over the original gt4.

i dont understand why toyota didnt fit the Recaro SR2 confetti (found on the Supra)... to set it apart from the non wrc variant.

Yea those seats as stock seats would have been great, i know they were fitted with recaros as option and if i find some for a good price i might buy them.

people seek the wrc because it was limited production number and easier to register?. even though theres no reason why you should get one over the original gt4.

i dont understand why toyota didnt fit the Recaro SR2 confetti (found on the Supra)... to set it apart from the non wrc variant.

WRC cars have some of the WRC hardware that is disabled. Like, intercooler sprayers, piping for anti-lag injectors (I forget the rest). So it is a little different, though power output should be same. Someone had enabled the anti-lag injectors if I remember right, though it's not as easy as on some other FIA homologation special cars. If I were looking for a collector grade ST205, that extra hardware would sure command a premium.

This is exaclty what am wondering. If left untouched it could fetch a premium over other gt4, and if that premium would be worth leaving it untouched

[CastrolOffYourBo...]

Just my 2cents...but here it goes.

The ST205 is a great car, a high-water mark for Toyota of the mid-90's.......BUT the WRC cheating scandal caused Toyota to 'lose face', and thus sullied the reputation of the corporation and the model.
Toyota seemed much more proud of the ST185 as a result, nevermind the fact that it was not the pinnacle of GT4 Celicas.

That said, ST205's are hitting new highs on the desirability scale as they have passed the 25 year mark and are importable to the USA.
Prices for non-WRC models have passed 20K at auction in Japan, and WRC-spec '94's are passing 40K!
Add in import costs, plating, title, taxes, etc and a true WRC '94 in good nick can push 50K retail. So how bad do you want that Supra vs. a GT4?